Renewing Your Mind

EP 5 The Inner Critic Part 2 with Melissa Gilmore

June 4, 2021

Mary Ann (00:33):

Welcome back to part two of the inner critic. Last week’s episode, if you have not listened to it, you should go back and download it because I talk about the seven most common inner critics in detail. And alongside of that, if you have not had a chance to take the assessment to find out which of the inner critics you struggle with most, you should definitely go over to Facebook, to the renewal session where I provided the link, because I just think it’s fun to kind of take these assessments and find out some new information about yourself and then ways to begin to address these issues. So, last week when I mentioned that, I said that I wanted to have a conversation with someone who was willing to talk about their inner critics. And so my niece, Melissa came up and said, Hey, I’ll do it.

Mary Ann (01:28):

Which was amazing because her and I have not gotten to connect, um, a ton throughout the pandemic. So it was just fun. So what you hear today is a completely unedited conversation that her and I are having on the phone about this very subject. Now, when you start hearing the phone call, you might get a little bit confused, but what the co the conversation was was Melissa talking about her competitiveness at playing kickball. And so I’m going to drop you right into our conversation. I hope there’s some great takeaways from this. If you really enjoy this content and want to hear more about it, please go over to Facebook and drop down in the comment or DM me and let me know how this information is impacting you, where you can get more resources and just encourage me to be teaching you the very things that you’re coming to listen about. So I want to invite you to do that, but for now, get ready to listen in on a private conversation about the inner critic between me and my niece, Melissa, enjoy.

Melissa (02:41):

But they were like, he keep calling. He’s like the ump was like, he’s out. And I was like, he was not, I was on the base and I tagged him like, no, absolutely not. And it was just this whole deal. And so my adrenaline is like through the roof while we play kickball and it takes a little while for it to come down, but it’s a lot of fun. So I knew it and it gives me a somewhat hobby to do, which John has asked me to find. So, Oh, because you’re not busy enough, you need a hobby. Well, a hobby that doesn’t include a work. Yeah. Because his point is you work too much. Is that as point? Yes. And then the last time he told me to get a hobby, I got a second job and seller.

Melissa (03:38):

So what really welcome to the world of an overachiever, right? Yeah. Really, really good at not doing things, not doing things that don’t have outcomes that impact your life, right? Yeah. Okay. So you took the test. Yeah. Which I think I took it when we did the last buy or book study or Bible study or whatever. I don’t remember what my results were. Then if I had to guess they were probably, probably still perfectionism or per the perfectionist first, but I thought, I think my scores dropped a little bit, um, because I think I have do what cause you got a hobby. Well, cause I got a hobby, but I think honestly, like I think COVID has taught me that I, even though I’ve, I’ve known orange, like back of my hand for the last five years really it’s like, everyone is relearning things this year, so it’s okay to not be perfect right now because no one’s perfect right now because no one’s businesses like thriving thing though, that is long as the social norm is imperfection. You write yourself off the hook, but so what is the trigger for your perfectionism then?

Melissa (05:13):

I think it’s the, um, it’s the outside view. I like as much as people want to say, they don’t care. What other people think of them. I think that’s a bunch of poop. Um, good. You decided to say poop and nothing. Um, because I think we’re always thinking about what people think about us in some capacity, whether it’s our husband, whether it’s our parents, whether it’s our children, whether it’s my staff, whether it’s people that know me that now I have a business, I like have to be successful. So, so it is so a lot of the perfectionism is driven by wanting people to perceive you a particular way, not just your own ability to like strive and be successful. Yeah, I think, I mean, yes, I want to be successful and I think I want to be successful because I know how bad like John also wants to be successful.

Melissa (06:19):

Um, cause I’ve said it before to you, but I had no inclination of owning an orange theory. That was not what I thought I was going to be doing. It has turned out to be an awesome blessing and provided us, um, great opportunities and being my own boss is probably what’s best. But, um, I know how badly, like, and it’s not just him. Like we have goals to, you know, retire early or, you know, travel more. And it’s like, if you, if we, if we were to have worked in like a fortune 500 company or corporate America, like that would be a lot harder to achieve as quickly as we would like to be able to achieve those things. So, um, so I think, yes, like I want to be successful for my family, but also, and this is where it’s like kind of a conundrum of like, um, I don’t care what people think, but like I know people are looking at me and looking at me in a way of like, Oh, how is she doing?

Melissa (07:35):

And not that they’re asking me because not many people do, but, um, yeah. How, how, how is the business doing is, you know, are they buying another business? Is, you know, are they happy in their marriage? I mean, it’s like the social media, like perception of everyone, like, because people know that I own a business like inevitably they are going to think like, Oh, I wonder if she’s successful. I wonder if they’re doing well. Um, so let me, so it’s like that unspoken personification of what other people are thinking, if that makes sense. And so what I was going to say is, let me, let me say an additional perfectionism thing. Cause it’s, it’s kind of linked to, with something I did earlier. So I report, I recorded a podcast on jealousy and envy and what is the difference between the two, right? And one of the things that I think you’re describing is some of your perfectionism comes out of your awareness that other people are envious of your life.

Melissa (08:51):

And yeah. But little do they know? Well, and what’s interesting is obviously, you know, I’ve, I’ve had a relationship with you your whole life, right? So I can point back to like when you were younger, you feeling the obligation to make other people feel comfortable or to be available to them in ways to meet their lack. Like whatever they’re lacking in life, you felt compelled to like step in that gap and meet that need. And the unlike jealous, so jealousy is about I’m going to lose something, right? So now I’m jealous because you have something or I’m afraid I’m going to lose it or be replaced as a result of you. Envy is I, I, the other person have a sense of lack in my life. And now I’m demonstrating, you know, anger or frustration or bitterness towards another person and I’m envying their successes or their material gain or any of those things.

Melissa (10:04):

So as you were talking, I was thinking to myself, I wonder how much of your perfectionism is really tied up in this awareness that you have a responsibility in you to meet the needs of other people. So you’re hyper aware of the pressure that comes. And so it’s like, well, yeah, they’re going to pay attention to me. I’m supposed to be the best. And you’re, you’ve never been a person that likes to blend anyway in life. Like you you’re always like a stand apart person, but even when you were younger, like you were very attuned to like accomplishments and helping other people like achieve their accomplishments, but that’s a lot of pressure on you to have the answers. Yeah. And I, and I think that’s the thing, perfectionism is it, there’s an element of, I have to have some, some degree of mastery in order to reach all of these goals.

Melissa (11:17):

And so right. You have like this instinct, I think in you to like, okay, what does this situation need? Which is actually your healthy, striving for excellence. Right. But because you’re aware of other people’s viewing of you and their expectations of you, I think that’s when it switches over to perfectionism. But I think I it’s base level, it’s actually a pursuit, like a pursuit of excellence. Like I’m going to make all the effort that I can to build a balanced life. Like you were saying with you and John, I’m gonna, you know, we have goals and we want to achieve those goals, but in the back of your head, everybody’s watching you. Right. So your perfection and perfectionism is born out of everybody’s watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would agree. And I think that it w going back to the, like filling the void or filling the need or having the answer for people, um, is I’ve always struggled.

Melissa (12:34):

Not always struggled, but like when it comes to like friendship, like outside of like business side, cause we can talk all day about like work related perfectionism, I feel like, or excellence or fulfilling the need or whatever. But, um, I think that that’s where the community aspect and the friendships and the relationship aspect, like for sure has, I’ve seen it develop as well. If that makes sense. Yeah. One of the things that like, if you look up ways to beat perfectionism, just like you Google it, right. I ran across this article and the gala in the article talked about that. Where, where perfectionism exists. So does a sense of lack of connection with others. In other words, the driving force for people is to be connected to other people through compassion, shared shared experiences, joys challenges, what have you. But because that perfectionist tendency comes in, there’s this added element of, I put distance, I’m not being my true self.

Melissa (13:48):

I’m putting distance. Right. You and I, because what I’m, what I’m doing is the mental gymnastics on, how do I meet this person’s need, what is it that I can provide for them? What standards do they have that I need to uphold myself to? And so the real you is lost within the listening, the perfectionist, listening to you, listening, or you, I’m sorry to, what are the cultural norms? What are the standards? What are, what am I supposed to be doing here? And I think that’s, that may be a part of why it feels like it’s hard to connect with people because truthfully, I don’t think all people have the same drive to, to meet a goal as early as you have it, right? Like you’re young, you’re young, you own two companies, right? Your kickball team. It’d be my luck that I would, I would think I was signing up for kickball.

Melissa (14:54):

And I ended up on a Dodge ball team and everybody, Paul sent me feel like showing up on my, I thought we were kicking. Not anyway. I digress. So I, but I think back to like, you’ve always had this sense of, I want to do something. And, and as a result of that, something I’m going to be set apart and almost in a way, because you’ve been striving for that excellence. You’ve, you’ve opened the door and importantly, to a lot of criticism by the parts of people who not, who are not doing the similar things. Right. It’s we, um, I don’t know, maybe six months a month or so ago. I remember John and I were having, maybe it was right around when we bought, um, Casey dogs that it was like not many people are going to be able to relate to us. There were be many times in our lives.

Melissa (16:02):

We are going to feel like we’re on an Island and not because we’re not letting people in and not because we don’t want that community or those relationships because you know, this, like I have only ever like dreamt about those relationships and communities for the last eight years of my life. Um, but because of what we do and where we’ve put ourselves, like inevitably, yes, this has kind of been the results of it. And to your point, you know? Yeah. I think my mental capacity does the work prior to even allowing the relationship to develop, because I want to make sure I do it the right way, or I want to make sure I’m, I’m there for whatever they need, you know? And I don’t even know what they need, but apparently I think they need something and I wanna make sure I fill that.

Melissa (16:53):

And it’s um, well, I, what’s interesting is perfectionism tends to have its root in some kind of childhood experiences and just thinking back over life. Right. I think you would say that, that exactly what you said of like, I’m ahead thinking, what do they need and how can I meet that need, but that’s even as a child you were doing with your siblings. Right. Right. And, and so this isn’t something just that you’ve been trying to address in your life in the present day, but, but it’s something that you, you came, you came forward to the task of what was being asked of you. Right. If it’s, Hey, go, you know, go in there and talk to your sister because she’s really struggling. And not that your parents said, it’s your responsibility, but you, you care about people. And so as a result that you’re going to go in and check on somebody.

Melissa (17:51):

Right. But, but a lot of times you were leading out of very, very limited knowledge on how to do something. So you were always having to, you know, I’ve always had to figure it out and that’s like, and you said, you know, uh, I don’t remember what you just said, but like, you know, stepped, stepped into whatever’s being asked of me. And like, I, I do think back to, you know, even in high school or college, it’s like, yeah, if something’s asked, I just do it. Like, I don’t tend to question it. Um, and I think I struggled with that early on in my career and then quickly realized like, Nope, that that could become manipulation. Um, but also that, um, yeah, I have a Tinder. Like I will get it done. I will figure it out. I will make it happen. Like I didn’t with orange theory.

Melissa (18:54):

Like I, I learned the manager role completely on my own. I didn’t have any training, no one taught me how to do it. Um, you know, I have my background and co co and vector and things like that, that I also can, I guess, attest to being able to at least learn some type of leadership skills from, but, um, you know, and the whole now owning one, like, yes, I went through franchise training and yes, there’s other owners, but like no one sat here and held my hand, like John jokes, but the Gilmore’s have a way of getting into a situation and getting ourselves out of it. Like we’ve always been able to figure it out and make it happen or make it work. Now, we also are very fortunate to trust God in the fact that he’s always going to provide. And like, especially this last year, I think has made us flex that muscle of like, you know, we have zero control at this point, so we have to trust and we have to hope and we have to pray and we have to, you know, look back on also the testimonies that we’ve had that he’s already provided for us.

Melissa (20:04):

So he will continue to. Um, but that doesn’t mean like we just have to sit back and relax and so that, so with all the personnel you’ve done, what do you think is the perfectionist, like, what’s the tape that you still here? Cause you’ve done a lot of like work, right? Like a subject, but as it still rears its head now, what are the situations or the dialogue that come along with that getting triggered [inaudible] I think I have to remind me, I think I constantly try to remind myself that like, I’m enough I’m and I, you know, this is going to be the super cliche answer of like I’m beautifully and wonderfully made. Like, do I tell myself that every day? Absolutely not. No, my self-talk is like, not that all the time, but when things happen that I am like, um, things are not going perfectly and they haven’t been, I think that’s the reason why I kind of set everything at the front end of like COVID as sucky as it was also taught me to just kind of throw my hands up and be like, I’m enough.

Melissa (21:28):

Like it whatever’s going to work out is going to work out. And I can’t keep trying to control that. Um, I think it taught me to let go of a lot of that control because one controlling it is exhausting. And, um, my mental capacity is zero when I try to do those things. Um, but also the like I’m enough statement is just like, it gives me a little bit of sense of freedom that like, you know, what, that sucks that they would perceive me or they would talk about me or they would do whatever this way, but you know, and I’m enough. And if, if we’re not going to be friends because of it, or if we’re, we’re not going to see eye to eye because of it, like that’s okay. Like I will, I’m not supposed to fill whatever need or void or whatever I think I could do with them for that.

Melissa (22:26):

And then with the businesses, it’s just like, yeah, COVID I think just completely taught me to have to be like, it’s, whatever’s going to happen is going to happen. It’s going to work out the way it’s supposed to work out and I can’t control it. You know, what’s interesting is like, I look at everything that you’re saying. And so many people are negatively been really negatively impacted by the pandemic and right there, it created a lot of anxiety for people and big, big life events happened in the middle of it also. I mean, you know, uncle Neil had his heart attack if he had died, w no funeral, no anything would’ve happened. Right. And so, but I look at it and listen to you and I think, Oh, I’m so grateful for the fact that you discovered something really important in that, in that period of time, that allows you to say I have goals.

Melissa (23:25):

I have dreams. And I, I don’t necessarily, I’m not necessarily peace with the fact that you’re not pleased with me, but I just can’t take my energy and put it there because I have to conserve. And I always, I was telling somebody the other day, I’m like something ain’t right when I’m talking to for 20 minutes. And that 20 minute conversation turns into me, ruminating on it for five days. Like there’s a problem here, you know? And so, and so I’ve really embraced this whole idea of conserving my energy and not expecting people to live up to some imaginary standard. I don’t have to live up to some imaginary standard. And I gave up on that a long time ago. And the other thing I was going to tell you, because obviously, you know, we’re not talking about what we’re talking about here, but let me say this.

Melissa (24:22):

Katie Katie made this comment to me one day. Um, when I said, you know, I wanted to start Haven and then I wanted to start the podcast. And then I wanted to do classes. And, you know, I had all these dreams that I wanted to achieve. Now that they’re raised. And like you said earlier, it puts you in a different category of person, right? Like you now are, are different. And even if the other person doesn’t view you technically as different, you just feel different because you’re actively pursuing this autonomous dream and calling and purpose. Right. Right. So, anyway, Katie says to me, one day, she says, mom, I really want you to think about this because I do think you’re going to be lonely. And I think it’s going to be something that’s going to be hard for you. And I was like, okay, what?

Melissa (25:11):

I’m ready for your Juul of information. Give it to me girl. And so she said, I think there’s a lot of people that snorkel, right? They like, they’re willing to go on vacation, stick the lone mask, get their face in the water, blow their bubbles and look at the fish. And that many of them are willing to scuba dive though. Exactly. So then she said, you know, then there are people who take it one step further and they’re like, okay, I’m going to scoop a diet. And so the, the numbers start to drop off. When you hit scuba diving, she goes, and then there’s like those crazy people who free dive. Right. And the numbers get even smaller when we do free divers. And then she goes, and then there’s those people who want to try to dive in the Mariana trench, which I had to look up what that was because, you know, Oh yeah, scary. But it’s like scary. Right? She goes, and then there are people who just, can’t not want to dive in the trench.

Melissa (26:09):

Maybe, maybe a handful of people want to do that. She goes, so it’s lonely. She goes in, you’re a person who wants to go in the trench. And the only people you’re going to feel really get that are people that scuba dive, because scuba divers have have a desire. They might not take it to the full, full extent that you want to go, but they get, and it was so helpful me because it completely shifted and shifted my, my hurt, disappointment desires for connection. And then, and then gave me permission to not feel misunderstood or invalidated. Right. Like, because you try to explain something of like your dreams and your goals, like you saying, I want to retire early. You say that to somebody your age and that immediately sets you apart. Right. And so there’s feelings that come with that when you’re the one striving for autonomy and financial stability and security, and you have all these dreams, other people become threatened by that.

Melissa (27:28):

Right. But other scuba divers don’t. Right. Right. And so I had to realize, like, I might be wanting snorkelers to be free, free divers, and I might need to like go out and find myself some free divers. Right. And so, yeah, we’ve, we’ve realized that like, we’re very fortunate with our Bible stay though. We have that, like, it’s a very diverse group and we have people that do have their own businesses or are, you know, owning their own, um, companies or programs are self-employed per se. And then we have, you know, and I don’t use the word traditional as like a negative word by any means. It’s just like, yeah. More traditional jobs. And it’s just a very, like, we’re, we’re grateful for it because at least we have someone that kind of gets the scuba diving part of it. Now none of them own a franchise like we do, but, um, they’re at least on, they have some understanding of like, what the heck were we talking about when we have prayer requests for our businesses or, or whatever it may be.

Melissa (28:38):

And it is, that’s kind of been one thing for John it, but it also makes it hard because it’s like you have your friends or the community you’ve built. Um, and when you want to free dive, like it, you have to practice, you have to learn all these extra things that a lot of people don’t have to learn or understand. So it like takes up a lot of time. Do you feel like you have the capacity to just go out and try to build more connections with more freedivers it’s like, it makes, it just you’re pulled in kind of this weird, like it’s like tug of war. It’s like, well, I have friends and I have a community that like, I’ve built up to this point and they love us and they, they they’re here for us and we love them, but like, it’d kinda be nice to not be lonely all the time or, you know, have, have people that you feel like can just maybe get you a little more so well, and I think, you know, one of the things that has really helped me during that of like longing for connection, but wanting to do something that’s not, like you said, traditional right.

Melissa (29:48):

Is being with other people that have those same aspirations. Like, so you mentioned, you know, Hey, John told me to get a hobby and what I do, I start selling clean line. Right. But when you made the decision to do that, you, you also entered into a community of people who had maybe not the same level of like entrepreneurial spirit that you have, but they’re in the ballpark. Right. Like they’re not, they get it. Right. So I’ve had just, when I started joining joining groups of podcasters, or I started participating with therapist groups, I started to feel like, Oh, I’m in a space where I feel normal.

Melissa (30:41):

I don’t, I don’t feel like an outcast anymore. And so when somebody says, Hey, I haven’t heard from you in a long time, you know, entrepreneurs don’t say that they don’t say that. Cause they’re so busy. Like you’re going crazy trying to run three businesses right now. Like as much as, like you said, there becomes a point at which you have to measure your capacity yeah. And become comfortable with like a different level of connection or where you get that connection. Cause I would say with a lot of people that have more of a non-traditional approach to making money, that I immediately feel like they get it. So that connection is there. It’s not like I have to, I don’t have it. We’re speaking the same language I guess, is what I would say. And what I realized is because I too have a perfectionist nature.

Melissa (31:41):

I actually, when I, when I am diving or whatever, with a group that’s similar to me, it’s, it’s all about excellence. It’s not about perfection. Right? Yeah. And I, when I started to realize like, wait a minute, there’s something really like, there’s a comradery, a sense of community that pushes me to be excellent. And I’m not like worried about meeting somebody standards because everybody’s like, Hey, we’re here to support each other. And you know, and I think when my, when I was at my most perfectionist kind of being is when I felt the most misunderstood. But once I got in relationship with people who I aligned with in terms of dreams and goals and plans for the future, I suddenly didn’t have as much of that. Right. Because nobody was, nobody was comparing. Right. Yeah. Everyone was on their own journey to their dreams. Exactly.

Melissa (32:53):

Exactly. I’m glad. I mean, in some ways I’m glad right. That, that your business and the pandemic have allowed you the space to find your niche. Yeah. And I think, I think John’s been helpful with that too. Um, and I think it, yeah, it’s also been me just flexing that muscle understanding, like just different and you know, I, I looked back on past relationships, you know, not any recent, but yeah. Definitely past relationships where it’s like, I’ve always kind of not been different in like a, you know what I mean? It just appear your way, but just like completely. Yeah. And it’s just like, you know what, I’m just, this is how I live my life and I can respect you for how you’re living your life, but like the sense of, you know, people just not understanding me or not, you know, not getting why maybe I’m not always at sayings or why I don’t, you know, um, I don’t know, you know, without getting too far into it, it’s just like, yeah, I just, in the last year I’ve gotten maybe two years I’ve come to the realization that it’s just, I’m just different and that’s okay.

Melissa (34:27):

And eventually I’ll find the community that is, and we already have some of those people, but you know, eventually yes, putting ourselves more with an aligned with the divers, the, the people that are, that that will get me, um, makes it a much more safe place. Yeah. I think what what’s interesting is those past relationships, like you’re stuck in you’re moving forward. Right. Are they are doing their own moving forward, but are resists different. Yeah. But they’re resentful yeah. Of you pulling yourself away from the group. And, and, and I think what what’s probably been so painful has been the fact that you decided to do something very specific to what you wanted to do in life. And instead of them rejoicing and encouraging your, you know, your pursuit of your dreams instead it’s Oh, there she, or, Oh, you know, this is what I think of her.

Melissa (35:39):

Or, you know, not, she’s not here or she’s not included because she thinks she’s better than us, which I think is what triggers perfectionism also, because it’s like, I don’t want you to think that. So now I’m panicked about that. And I got to figure out how to connect with you. But the truth, I would say that’s probably one of the bigger triggers is the, Oh, she thinks she’s better. Oh, she thinks she’s got it all together. Oh, she thinks, you know, he or she is owning businesses and it’s like, I, I’m not perfect. And I know I’m not perfect, but when I feel like that’s how I’m being judged it, I think it hurts me even more because I try to come at things as humbly as I can. And I would hope to God, like a lot of our staff would tell you, this is like, I’m never gonna, I’m never gonna use my title over people.

Melissa (36:43):

Now, granted, I’ve worked really hard to get where I’ve gotten. And I do think that that earns some things, but if the toilet’s dirty, I’m going to clean the toilet. If the job needs to get done, I’m going to do the job. Like I hope I’m pray. Like the people we have in place really loved doing what they do. And, and, and they’re bought into not just what we’re doing, but us as people. And it makes a really great culture. But yeah, I think that that’s, I think when people look from the outside, in online, these people that are business owners, yeah. There are a lot of people that just sit on this high rise chair and, you know, dictate and you know, and, and some people have to do that because they own so many things. Like you kind of, can’t be in all these places at once.

Melissa (37:34):

But, um, I feel like John and I have tried really hard to come to a place of like humility with the way we operate businesses in the way we go about our life. Because we like where we are. Like, we’re also normal people. We just worked really, really hard and put ourselves in positions to put us where we’re at. And like not saying everybody, everybody can do it. You have to be willing to do it. Well, I think everybody can do it, but you have to want to make yourself vulnerable in a different way. Right. You have to be willing to take risks and, and play, play to your strengths. Right. I think a lot of times, and this just goes back to that envy thing of when you do something that’s set apart, people make an assumption. Sometimes I don’t want to say all the time.

Melissa (38:34):

Right. But people assumption that, like you think you’re the bomb and you think you have your act together and you’re sitting, like you said, in your high tower, looking down on me when really, and this is, this, this isn’t meant as a desk, but you’re too busy to be sitting around thinking about them. Right. Like you got to clean toilets. I ain’t got time. Right. And so, yeah. And that’s the thing is I think sometimes though people get like, I don’t know though, like adrenaline rushes, you know, um, not tearing me or people like me down, but it’s like, I don’t think about it. You’re not hurting my feelings. You’re like, talk about me, talk about whatever you want about me. Like, I would hope, you know, because I just like, would hope you could live your life better than that. But I just, yeah, no, I’m too busy to be thinking about those things.

Melissa (39:35):

I don’t have the time for that. I don’t have the mental capacity for that. I have plenty of other things to be worrying about. Yeah. And I think that’s where, you know, that’s what sets you apart. And then that’s sometimes also what’s the trigger because of you. Right. And so that God would set up your world so that you have people in it that live a traditional life that aren’t trying to start and, um, be successful at their own enterprises. But, but you also have people in your group that are doing similar things to you. So it’s like this new, nice mix of both. And it’s like, I get to go. Why didn’t you just go to Jamaica or something like you get to go to Jamaica and go snorkeling and diving. Right. And it was funny, right? Your parents were here like, I dunno, a couple of weeks ago or whatever.

Melissa (40:31):

And they were talking about going on this trip. And then, you know, they got their little scuba diving group now that they go with, I feel myself going, I wouldn’t be a scooper diver. And then, and so they leave and Neil and I are sitting in the kitchen. I was like, we have no life. Like we’re such loser. I just went to to get my scoop, my snoring, like what’s wrong with my life. And he looks at me and he says, our lives are like perfectly made for us. Their lives are perfectly made for them. And, you know, we have different aspirations and different dreams and I don’t have to live by their standards and they don’t have to live by my standards in order for us to be celebrate Tori for each other. Right now, I’m not going to lie the idea of being on a catamaran for seven days, you know, being fed by one.

Melissa (41:37):

Amazing. But then I think to myself, but you know, what sounds really amazing is laying, laying by a pool or sitting in a pool, having, having cocktails and like creating huge memories. And that’s why I go on their trips. Great. And I mean, you guys had that trip together. Those memories are really fun. You mean the videos? I will never say the word zero, John and I joked about when we were in Jamaica and I was like, what is that from? Oh yeah, got it. Remember it now. But it’s like, it’s, I think that’s where, and especially why like our current, um, like Bible study and group of friends is so great. And, and not just that group, we have a couple of other groups too, is that like, yes, we’re all different. And I think that’s why, like, we may be so tied to Kansas city now is because of the communities that, you know, I’ve just dreamt for my whole life, um, to have to just have people that, like, they don’t have to be like John and I, but they could, they can meet us where we’re at and they can celebrate with us.

Melissa (42:51):

They can, like, we went on, we went to Jamaica with Evan and Kaitlin and we went to Mexico with Evan and Caitlin, like, they’re kind of like our travel buddies. Um, and we have like, we have people that like can also just be our biggest cheerleaders without this sense, without them feeling like they have to be at this standard that we’re setting for them and us not be at the standard that they’re setting for us. And it’s just like, it’s such a good feeling like, and I think that, that probably is also, you know, you asked me, you know, what has been your dialogue or maybe something that’s like, kind of freed you from it. I think it’s people that have helped with that because they’ve allowed it to be a safe space, to just be us and accept us for who we are and celebrate the great and be there for the bad.

Melissa (43:42):

And, um, it’s like, you know, I prayed and I prayed, I prayed, I prayed, I prayed for people like this. And so to finally have that, it’s it, it’s a game changer. And because the perfectionism doesn’t have to be there right when you’re just accepted and enjoyed and can create memories without the pressure of being something more than you are in that moment, you don’t have to put on all of that. And that’s the thing is once we find community or once we find our niche, whatever that is, it could, it doesn’t even have to be people. Sometimes it could just be like, this is how I get my job done. These are my performance goals. These are my mindsets. And I live in these two tracks. Like that happens. It does release your perfectionism because it’s like, Oh, there’s space to breathe. Right. Right.

Melissa (44:40):

And that’s what I love about watching you go from being so sad about relationships and feeling so misunderstood to being able to say, no, actually I feel, I feel like I’ve got community and I feel like I’ve got a sense of like, I’m just feel comfortable with these people comfortable enough to go on a couple of trips with that. I’m comfortable enough to let them see the good, bad you know, of my life and know that they will still accept me and love me, even if I have a bad day. Yeah. I mean, you’re, I mean, it’s not because your mom has walked through some good, bad and ugly with me. I mean, you, you have to your siblings. I mean everybody, but it to know that like somebody is like, yeah, I’ve seen all of it and I’m still crazy about you is like a really great thing.

Melissa (45:39):

And you really it’s really, you can just get to breathe because you’re like, Oh, I don’t have to perform for you. I just to get to be me. I think we’re still like, we’re still working through some of the like growing pains and building relationships, I think because, um, there are a lot that we’ve created to try to build. And so like when I was talking about, you know, just like the capacity of like, okay, do, am I able to take on more relationships? Um, but the hope is that like we’ve put ourselves in enough positions that like, yeah, people want to be around the Gilmores. People want to cheer for the Gilmore’s because we’ve hopefully done that for them or have put ourselves in positions to do that for them. And, um, and it’s, you know, not everyone is going to, like, we’re not going to be best friends with everyone.

Melissa (46:36):

And I understand that, but I think it’s just also allowing yourself to be a little bit more vulnerable than golly. God knows that the last thing I want to do is be vulnerable and just get hurt again. So it was tough to put myself out there and try to put myself into groups or, you know, John would say, you have go, go on a coffee date with this person. It’s like, I don’t know if they want to be my friend. So I don’t know if I should go on and talk to you date with them. Um, but it’s so different for guys, right? Like there’s just like different beyond different. He’s like, well just go hang out with them. It’s not how it works. It’s just not how it works. You know, what’s so funny is this morning I was, I was listening to, uh, Mel Robbins.

Melissa (47:25):

It was like a video that she, um, filmed white while her and her husband were walking on the beach. And it was this whole bit about how he never looks in the mirror. And she’s like, what, what do you mean? You don’t look at the mirror. She goes, I look in the mirror and I constantly evaluate, Ooh, today’s not a good day. I don’t look so good. He’s like, yeah, no, I never do that. He goes, and I certainly don’t look in the mirror and say, where’s my bag of makeups so I can look. I was like, Oh my gosh, what would it be? How great would it be to be a guy? And like, just look at yourself in the mirror and be like, it is what it is or better yet. Don’t look in the mirror. Right? Yeah. I know. And you know what? I zoom on the, we’ll say, I don’t know. There are some days and I probably haven’t looked in the mirror and it’s probably not those days that, you know, I looked the best fitness industry. I think there’s like that, that back and forth where it’s like, you work in the fitness industry. Oh, you must care what you look like. I wear leggings and t-shirts store. So I’ve probably slacked in the, a face hair department for a long time, you know, journalistically, are you gonna put jeans on for a date? Like sure.

Melissa (48:49):

But yeah, I did. Yeah. I can’t imagine just like never looking in the mirror. No. Don’t know what that’s like. Okay. So just, I know we have to like go, we could go because you got stuff going on and stuff, but I gotta tell you, we went to orange theory the other night. Right. And, um, I walked in and my trainer, like, she literally doesn’t even look like the same person and you know how you have to wear the head mic and you’re walking around and you’re like, okay, now do X, Y, Z, or whatever. Right. You know? And uh, just her voice sounds just like my regular trainer. I’m like, Hey, but I mean, it’s her, but it’s like, she got plastic surgery or something. It’s so weird. But I was just there in class, on Thursday. So clearly she didn’t get plastic surgery. Right. So I’m just like sitting there. And I, I don’t treadmill because I have plantar fasciitis. So I’m on the Strider. Right. So I’m really paying attention to what she’s looking like, what’s going on. What’s wrong with her? It took me the whole hour. You know what she did. She went and got eyelash extensions.

Melissa (49:55):

Like she had plastic surgery to me. And I was like, huh, that only took me an hour. And then I told Neil about it and he goes, so let me get this straight. You wasted an entire hour. Figure out why she looked different. I go, it was either that, or be completely aware of how difficult these all outs were. I went for the eyelashes and everything look adorable on her, like acute enough that I was like, maybe I could change my entire look if I got, I was, I’m not joking though. Those eyelash extensions now, granted, they like ruin your eyelashes, but, and they’re expensive. But every person, not every, it depends on what kind they get. I mean, some people’s look like caterpillars, but I’m like, I’m like, you have no makeup on and you look so put together. I’m like, if that’s all it took for me.

Melissa (50:50):

Yeah. Maybe sign me up. I already am. I’m already not working with many eyelashes. So I don’t know if I need to like, get rid of all of them by doing that. But, but just wear like those blue ones or whatever, they are the glue on those ruined my eyelashes and dance too. I’m like finally growing eyelashes back at this point, isn’t there like products that you could buy that like strengthen your eyelashes or something. Yeah. I’ve tried. Um, probably not consistently enough. So I have no idea if they work. So I’m going to leave us on this note and you think about it. Why are a lot of guys eye lashes straight, but women’s are curl.

Melissa (51:34):

Okay. On that note, Melissa, John eyelash, I was going to say that I actually think John’s are more curl than mine meals. Like they’re straightened out. Morgans are straight out. Morgan has straight out eyelashes meals. Maybe it’s like our families, but I’ll go in and I’ll look at all the members here in a second. I’ll let you, can you please flutter your eyes. That’s such a Wayne conversation, but I’ll leave you with that. Because the other day I was driving in the car and I was looking at Neil and there were a lot of things. I noticed that as he ages, he’s got like random things that just like, why is there a hair that wasn’t there on your lobe yesterday, suddenly out there. And it’s like a Footlocker, but also I that’s when I noticed the eyelashes and I was like, have his eyelashes always pointed down like that. And I just now notice interesting happens when you get rid of your perfectionist tendencies. You’ve got nothing else to do. Let me just pick out anything. I can see, wonder why that tree looks like that, but that one looks like that. All right, girl, love you. I’ll call you later. Okay. Bye.

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Hey There, I’m Mary Ann, a Christian Therapist for more than a decade, Life Coach and Identity and Calling Mentor
Most days you can find me helping clients with the messy and meaningful things of life. I am mostly known for being a Christ follower, Wife and Mother to two adult children. If you were to ask people what I am like, they would say “ what you see if what you get”, funny, authentic, and unfiltered truth. I love teaching people about how to use counseling ideas to lead them to deeper spiritual growth. I am passionate about helping people become who they were created to be.

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